Indian man (2): Can one be a householder, I mean, with his normal worldly life, and at the same time be a…

Prabhupada: First of all, what do you mean by householder?

Indian man (2): I mean continue the normal occupation of one’s…

Prabhupada: Say me. Explain what is householder.

Indian man (2): Looking after one’s business, after one’s family…

Prabhupada: So that is… Dog is also doing that business.

Indian man (2): Pardon?

Prabhupada: Dog is also doing that. Is he householder? Taking care of children, the dog is also doing that. So is he householder? First of all, you do not know what is meant by householder. Taking care of children, that is done by the birds. In the nest the small kiddies are there, and they are bringing food and pushing in the mouth, [makes bird noise:] “Tee, tee, tee, tee, tee.” [laughter] Are they householder? And if you think they are householder, you are also householder like the dogs and birds. You do not know what is householder. Therefore you have to consult sastra, who is a householder. Sastra says, pita na sa syaj janani na sa syat, na mocayed yah samupeta-mrtyum [SB 5.5.18]: “You should not become a father and mother unless you take the responsibility for children that no more birth.” Because this is the problem, janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam [Bg 13.9]. If you are so able father and mother that you can stop this miserable condition of your children, then you become householder. That is householder. Otherwise what is the use of becoming a householder like dogs and cats? There is no use. There are so many cats and dogs. What is use of increasing? Now government is forcing: “Do not produce cats and dogs. Take these inhibitions[?].” Because the whole world is fed up with these cats and dogs householders. Real householder is, sastra says, “Don’t become a father, don’t become a mother, if you cannot protect your children…” Samupeta-mrtyum. And they are required. If you can do that, then you are welcome. You can produce hundreds of children. But you cannot protect yourself; how you’ll be able to protect your children? All bogus. Householder is allowed, as brahmacari-asrama, grhastha-asrama. It is not meant like that… Big, big personality were householder. Lord Ramacandra was householder. Arjuna was householder. Prahlada Maharaja was a householder. Janaka Maharaja was householder. But they were not cats and dogs. So be householder. You do the duty of real householder. Don’t become cats and dogs. Then where is human civili…? What is the distinction between cats and dogs and human civilization if you do the same thing? Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithuna [Hitopadesa 25].
Then you are huma…, not even human being. What is the question of householder? Be householder as it is in the civilized codes, human history, they are… Otherwise refrain. Householder does not mean to satisfy the itching sensation of the genitals. That is not householder. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. To satisfy the itching sensation, that is not householder. Here is householder. Protect your children from death. Can you do that? That kind of householder, at least. The trees on the street, everywhere… There is no question of becoming householder. The whole Bhagavad-gita… Arjuna, he was householder. He was politician. So he did not give up anything. Before his hearing Bhagavad-gita he was the same, a large family, and he was fighting for some material interests. And after hearing Bhagavad-gita he remained the same, not that he gave up fighting and went to the forest. These things are not required. But he changed his consciousness — karisye vacanam tava [Bg 18.73]. And that is required. You remain in any condition of life, but follow the instruction of Krsna. That is perfection.

May 8, 1977, Rishikesh